By Chen Ziqi
Member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) are navigating a common challenge: how to continue economic development and improve living standards while protecting the environment. To address this challenge, they are increasingly working together, sharing technologies, and leveraging their complementary resources to make green development part of their growth strategies.
That cooperation is taking shape in various ways: wind turbines turning the Kazakh steppe’s strong winds into electricity, salt-tolerant plants taking root on the edge of the shrinking Aral Sea, electric buses running through Pakistan’s busy streets, and mountains of waste in Kyrgyzstan being transformed into power.
Their emerging experience suggests that green development does not have to mean choosing the environment over the economy. These solutions can accelerate the energy transition, create new livelihood opportunities, and unlock investment, jobs and innovation across the region.
Powering the future: The SCO’s shift to clean energy
With a population representing around 42% of the world’s total and economies that are continuing to grow, SCO countries are facing rising demands for energy.
Meeting those demands without deepening dependence on high-carbon energy is a major challenge. But it also presents a significant opportunity.
SCO countries are rich in renewable energy resources, from abundant sunlight and wind to hydropower potential. They are increasingly turning these natural endowments into new sources of energy.
Making that transition work at scale also requires technology and regional cooperation. Sohail Khan, Deputy Secretary-General of the SCO, said high-tech products, particularly those produced in China, could help SCO countries implement energy projects and strengthen regional energy connectivity.
And the results are already significant. According to China’s National Energy Administration, SCO countries had a total renewable energy installed capacity of 2.31 billion kW as of the end of 2024, about 14.5 times the level when the organization was founded in 2001 and accounting about half of the world’s total.
Kazakhstan offers one example of how such cooperation can work in practice and how it can create economic value.
In the country’s Akmola region, about 50 kilometers away from the capital Astana, one of Kazakhstan’s largest wind power projects is adding renewable capacity to an electricity system that has long relied heavily on conventional energy sources. Built and operated by a Chinese company, the project generates around 843 million kilowatt-hours of electricity annually, helping meet the power needs of local communities.
According to chief engineer Zhang Liang, the renewable electricity generated each year helps avoid nearly 690,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions. This is roughly equivalent to taking more than 200,000 gasoline-powered cars off the road for a year, assuming each car travels 15,000 kilometers and consumes 10 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers.
Keeping the turbines running is not always easy. In winter, temperatures in the Akmola can plunge to minus 40 degrees Celsius, while heavy snow increases the risk of ice buildup on the turbines.
Engineers have adapted the turbines to these harsh conditions, using smoother surfaces to reduce ice formation. In addition, a control system periodically activates the turbines when conditions are safe, using the rotation of blades to shed accumulated ice.
Turning ecological restoration into opportunity
The SCO’s green-development efforts extend well beyond the energy transition, with members also working together to address ecological challenges across the region.
Since the 1960s, intensive use of water for agriculture, together with other human activities, has dramatically reduced the sea’s size. Today, its area is only around 10% of its original size, according to NASA Science. As the water receded, more than 67,000 square kilometers of the seabed were exposed, forming a vast desert landscape. Salt left behind on the exposed land has contributed to soil salinization and alkalization, as well as salt-dust storms. The ecological disaster has become known as the “dry tears of Central Asia.”
Reversing such damage is a long-term task, requiring not only restoration efforts but also a better understanding of the changing ecosystem. Since 2013, China and Central Asian countries have worked together through the CAS Research Center for Ecology and Environment of Central Asia, headquartered in Tashkent, Uzbekistan.
More than 80 monitoring stations have been established around the Aral Sea to track ecological conditions, surface and groundwater, and salt-dust storms. Based on the data collected, researchers have classified the region into seven ecological types, providing a scientific basis for restoration efforts.
One area of cooperation draws on China’s experience in tackling saline-alkali soil, particularly methods developed through restoration efforts in Xinjiang. Researchers from China and Uzbekistan are testing and selecting plant species that can survive in highly saline soils and potentially help absorb or reduce salt in the soil. By 2026, five experimental plant gardens had been established, with two more planned.
Moreover, more than 40 salt-tolerant plant species from China have also been introduced for testing to determine whether they can adapt to the region’s harsh conditions.
Apart from restoring the soil condition, some of the plants also offer economic opportunities. Bakhitjan Khabibullaev, director of the International Innovation Center for the Aral Sea Basin, pointed to cistanche as one example. The plant has medicinal value and is found in parts of Central Asia, but its potential has not yet been fully explored. China, he said, has developed a more systematic research and practical experience in utilizing the plant, offering lessons for Central Asian countries.
Green solutions for growing cities
The green transition is also reshaping how SCO countries manage their cities, from waste treatment to public transportation.
In Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan, a new waste-to-energy plant is turning a longstanding environmental problem into a source of electricity. Backed by Chinese investment and built with Chinese technology, the first phase of the facility began operations late last year. Currently, it can process around 1,000 tonnes of waste a day and generate about 146 million kilowatt-hours of electricity annually.
The groundbreaking ceremony for the second phase of the project was held in June this year. Once completed, the entire facility is expected to process up to 3,000 tonnes of waste a day and generate around 480 million kilowatt-hours of electricity annually, making it the first waste-to-energy plant of its kind in Central Asia.
The project addresses a problem that had long plagued the city. Before the plant was built, much of Bishkek’s waste was dumped at landfills, where decomposing waste generated methane and contributed to the risk of fires.
This offers more than simply an environmental solution. It also represents an investment of about $95 million and is expected to create nearly 100 local jobs, linking better waste management with economic activity.
The same principle is being applied to urban transportation. In Pakistan, where a population of more than 240 million generates enormous demand for daily mobility, cities are under growing pressure to expand transportation without worsening air pollution.
The government is responding with a push to accelerate the country’s transition to electric mobility. In 2025, it set a target for electric vehicles to account for 30% of new vehicle sales by 2030.
Chinese companies are becoming part of that transition. In 2025, 400 electric buses made by Chinese manufacturer Yutong were delivered to 19 cities in Pakistan, creating around 1,500 job opportunities, according to project information. This year, another 600 electric buses from Beijing Automotive Group have been put into operation in the country.
Dr. Naveed Arshad of the Lahore University of Management Sciences sees new-energy transportation as an emerging opportunity for urban development. As Pakistan’s electricity infrastructure improves, he said, electric vehicles can offer greater energy efficiency and lower operating and maintenance costs. Chinese companies, he added, have technological expertise and experience that can support Pakistan’s development of new-energy transportation.
The SCO’s green transition is increasingly becoming a development strategy in its own right. The goal is not simply to cut carbon, but to build a cleaner development model that can strengthen energy supplies, create livelihoods, improve cities and generate new economic opportunities.
As SCO leaders prepare to gather in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, over coming days, the focus will be on how to turn these emerging opportunities into deeper cooperation for a greener and more sustainable region.
Chen Ziqi is a reporter from CGTN Radio
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The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), consisting of 10 member nations together with observer states and dialogue partners, are co-operatively addressing the existential problems of energy production and environmental protection. Here in Australia we cannot get our states to tackle these issues with agreement and common purpose!
Meanwhile, back home we continue to pay lip service to existential climate breakdown, manipulated by the voracious fossil fuel corporations, fuck headed oligarchs, and a mainly moronic media.
Time to apply for membership at the SCO, it couldn’t possibly be worse.
Mediocrates, the Chinese seem to have mastered the technique of having a powerful central government, while providing for democracy from the bottom up.
In other words, the exact opposite to ours.
Seems Oz, by the antediluvian design of the EU/UK/USA imperia and the ‘West’ as a whole, locks itself out of eastern ventures such as SCO. Instead clutching at worthless soon-to-be-stranded pearls
It’s a kind of structured moronism.
Seems we’d rather continue shitting bricks under the thrall of USA and its standard m.o. of propaganda, coercion and vengeance.
Be wary of outlining the virtue of a highly centralised government without indication of the historically high human cost.
A very useful, relevant and timely article is.., available here, but may not be widely read, Comments fringe it as expected. D Horne suggested our “position” and lacks, fair warning that are too often unaware, slow, irritated, when a way is suggested, with clear successes, so, preach…China again does well, better than so many.
Counter context, estimates put deaths from the great leap forward at 15 to 55 million people.
“Counter context, estimates put deaths from the great leap forward at 15 to 55 million people.”
That’s not counter context, it’s not any sort of context.
It’s clearly guesswork.
“It’s clearly guesswork.”
estimate /ĕs′tə-māt″/
transitive verb
– To calculate approximately (the amount, extent, magnitude, position, or value of something).
An estimate from 15 to 55 million is not an estimate.
It’s not an approximation.
It’s not a calculation.
It’s an admission that there’s too little data available to put a figure on it.
So why put a figure on it?
If you have data to put a solid number on something, it definitionally does not need estimation.
If there’s too little data to put a figure on it, why put a figure on it?
Whoopsie! It looks like your trying to argue against the premise of estimation and its practical use.
You currently have insufficient credit to make such a claim. Apply the Sagan Standard of evidence and try again.
Estimations have practical utility. The Earth is an oblate spheroid (round). Earth gravity averages 9.8m/s^2.
15 to 55 million has practical utility?
For what exactly?
“estimate…deaths from the great leap forward”
I will leave you to work the rest out. These defintions are not metaphysical.
“I will leave you to work the rest out.”
Now Bob’s getting coy.
He seems to be afraid now, to state the purpose of the estimating the deaths in such a loose manner.
His figure has no practical utility.
Im not required to prove the Earth isnt flat either.
“Estimates are useful”. Disprove it or your argument remains unfounded
What relevance does the great leap forward death toll have? Is that how China works now? Are the same people in charge? The same systems operating? Is that how they’re instituting these technological advances?
I mean, if we’re going to start whatabouting, look at all the deaths that have resulted from Western imperialism and colonialism …
“The same systems operating?”
The exact same party, running the same system of governance uninterupted since the great leap forward.
This wasnt whataboutism, china was mentioned, not by me. People brought up a systems benefits while omitting the cost. (Look how fast a centralised government can impose decisions!)
So were the nazis only evil under hitler? (This is closer to whataboutism, but still a relevent analogy)
Im disengaging from the other troll.
Keen for your reply to the other thread (first nations people) tbh
The wild figure of 15 to 55 million has no context.
It has as well, even with the garland Bob has placed around its neck, no practical utility.
Suddenly, the garland has lost its sheen.
He’s had six opportunities to give the figure context, but Bob is stepping around it like it’s a taipan.
As well he should.
There was indeed too many deaths in that period, but not all were due to communists, and that period came to an end.
There was a famine during the Great Leap Forward.
Were those deaths due to communism?
China had a dumbfounding 1,828 famines in the previous 2,000 years, leaving countless millions dead. Since then, the central government that Bob disparages has prevented subsequent famines, ending the two millennia-long cycle.
A cause for celebration, any decent person would think.
If Bob was really interested in context he would have followed up his death guesstimate with an estimate of the deaths due to capitalism.
Just for balance.
Because the deaths from capitalism never, ever, end — they continue as we speak.
And yet, we will wait in vain to see a news media headline — DEATHS DUE TO CAPITALISM.
Deaths due to communism?, well, that’s another story.
That’s top quality fodder for sheeple everywhere.
They guzzle it down like free beer.
It’s a topic that is regularly trotted out by the defenders of imperialism. Bob has had ample opportunity to provide balance to his comment, but has refrained each time.
Do we have another Empire loyalist on our hands?
leefe, my comment was written before I saw yours.
Thank you for tossing that into the mix.
You managed to get Bob to entangle himself nicely.
Not the EU nations; it’s neoliberal & fossil fuel Anglosphere that leads opposition to clean energy.
Europe’s energy production & transmission was saved and sustained by clean energy, often Chinese infrastructure…..in hottest and driest summer ever…..
There have been constant efforts to hobble or stymie EU environmental and clean energy initiatives by Koch Network and the Kremlin…..no surprise.
Steve:
Like it’s hard?
Whataboutism is a rhetorical trick where someone responds to an accusation with a counter-accusation or a different question instead of addressing the original claim. It’s often treated as an informal logical fallacy because it distracts from whether the first accusation is true.
I didnt bring up China as a topic, it was raised in the article.
What was the cost of the system of governance covered in the article?
leefe, I dangled a carrot in front of him 5 times without success.
Your direct approach put my gentle nudges to shame.
Bob entered the discussion with a Seinfeld point — a point about nothing.
A criticism so indistinct, so lacking in detail, so lacking context, so…what’s the word?…oh yeah, so nebulous, that he thought he could just chuck it in there and walk away feeling like he’d achieved something.
There’s an easy way Bob could have provided context for his dodgy figure.
He could have said, — “The deaths that occurred during the Great Leap Forward were terrible, but on the other hand, look at the marvellous job the central government of China has done in pulling 800 million people out of poverty, accounting for 75% of global poverty reduction in the same period.” 🙂
Bob,
yes, we’re talking about China. But we’re not talking about the lethal screw-up last century; we’re talking about China now, China building their future, China helping to drag many of the poorest parts of the world up with it.
There are issues with their socio-political system. There are issues with ours. Neither is perfect in my eyes. Critique of either is fair; dragging in a defused bomb as though it’s relevant now is not.
I gave up on said bob homes after he asked for distinct advice on a topic and I provided him with useful internet entry points that would satisfy his wishes and, more fool me, thought that perhaps he’d say ‘thanks mate,’ but no, nothing, just the soft huzzing of crickets. I generally have zero tolerance for that kind of ignorance, and just hunker down with the ravens, to sing along with their melodic chants, faark, farrk, are you listening, bob homes?, faark, faark.
I would, btw, take issue with one of his comments further up this thread, where he wrote “The exact same party, running the same system of governance uninterupted [sic] since the great leap forward.”
The iteration of leaders since Mao Zedong’s death in 1976: Hua Guofeng (1976–1981), Deng Xiaoping (1978–1989), Jiang Zemin (1989–2002), Hu Jintao (2002–2012), to the present leader, Xi Jinping, have instrumented extraordinary changes in that society, have demonstrated what is possible under a one-party system – something no other country in the world has been able to copy, model or replicate, and have, as it’s been well noted, lifted hundreds of millions of citizens out of a life of agrarian poverty, and now extending their capacity to build for future benefit in a raft of other countries through the Belt and Road initiative.
Needless to say, having lived in that country for a number of years and also having a Chinese partner, I’m biased. It’s not a perfect society, but very few are, and India aside, no other country has to deal with the responsibility for the health and welfare of ~1.4 billion people. If this country had a similar model of govenment, imagine what would be possible… but no, instead we’re saddled with mediocre individuals who can’t get off their arses to do anything positive for the nation.
I prepared the following before seeing Kanga’s very worthy comment, so I apologise for the overlap.
It seems to be feature of habitual accusers and fabricators, that they know all the labels for all the verbal tricks — because they use them all themselves.
Look at Bob at 6.49 today.
“Whataboutism is a rhetorical trick where someone responds to an accusation with a counter-accusation or a different question instead of addressing the original claim. It’s often treated as an informal logical fallacy because it distracts from whether the first accusation is true.”
He immediately followed with a whataboutism — “I didnt bring up China as a topic, it was raised in the article.”
No-one had suggested that he had.
That was a diversion, with even a little “I’m the victim here!”
To compound the refusal to decently engage with the thread, he re-worded his nebulous criticism of China, but again, with no context provided — “What was the cost of the system of governance covered in the article?”
By not providing context or details, this was a rhetorical question, and hey, who can argue with a rhetorical question?
I can.
The system of governance covered in the article was not the system of governance in place during the Great Leap Forward.
One of the advantages of a centralised government such as we see in China, is that they conduct regular performance reviews that result in regular changes in policy.
How different and superior is that to the liberal democracies that are stuck in a time-warp?
Try making a suggestion that we ditch the much-hallowed Westminster System and see how you go.
And so we see here how many verbal distortions can be inserted into one short comment.
Habitual accusers and fabricators get away with nonsense because they hone their skills over a lifetime.
They know that by making assertions and accusations with an air of confidence, most people assume they are being truthful.
Be aware.
I tip my hat to leefe, who saw through all this immediately, and better still, spoke out.
Thank you Canguro, master of references, for telling me to google it, and providing search engine links! I prostrate myself before you and beg forgiveness for the lack of recognition of your epic efforts that this mighty and selfless deed obviously entailed.
Cant allow any remotely alternate idea to contaminate the echo chamber! And people wonder why right wing extremism is on the rise.
Thank goodness somebody has cut off the ravings of Bob Homes and the usually sensible Steve. Harry Lime says it all!!
Yet Australian politicians since 1945 have led Australia into becoming a third world export economy for the benefit of European and American owned multinational corporations.
What ever happened to national development by Australians for Australians?? Were the too dominant for too long COALition too lazy to plan for an Australia leading the world in mineral processing and subsequent manufacturing??
Or was it easier to follow the ”sell it now and spend the profits” philosophy so that the future could look after itself paying higher rates to foreign owners of essential infrastructure.
Don’t get me going on Scummo’s USUKA debacle now that the UK subs has indicated that it is unlikely to produce the necessary subs ….. and the US sub building industry continues to under-perform.
It seems to me that Australia would be better served by encouraging more cooperation with PRC China than playing Deputy Dawg to a the war-mongering Hogsbreathe and TACO Trumpery. Why we might even have already completed the Melbourne to Brisbane High Speed Railway as a partnership in the Belt & Road Project, rather than ”just planning” the longest underground tunnel between Newcastle and Sydney.
This discussion got me thinking about the Chinese system in more detail.
It’s described as communist, but is it?
The nation is known as the People’s Republic of China, and the republic was set up by the communists who successfully wrested China away from the ravages of liberal imperialism.
The ruling party is the Communist Party of China.
But it’s worth having a look at some generally accepted definitions of what communism actually is.
MERRIAM WEBSTER
Communism
1.A) a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism
B) a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
C) a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably
D) COMMUNIST SYSTEMS COLLECTIVELY
2.A) a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
B)a theory advocating elimination of private property
EBSCO Research
Communism is an economic and political system that envisions a classless society through collective ownership of resources and centralized control over production and distribution.
Cambridge Dictionary
The belief in a society without different social classes in which the methods of production are owned and controlled by all its members, and everyone works as much as they can and receives what they need, or a social and political system based on this belief.
But now we have a problem.
None of the above describes China as it actually operates.
Yes, Marx and Lenin were important in the development of the Chinese system, but so was Confucius.
And no, the state has not withered away and does not look like doing so, so that feature of communism from Merriam Webster is missing, as are the elimination of private property and ownership in common.
The classless society from EBSCO also does not apply.
China has classes of public servants, landowners, entrepreneurs and workers. Same as any other country.
There is a degree of centralised control over production and distribution, but it is far from total as EBSCO implied. Locally elected authorities control much in their area of jurisdiction, to the point of having standards control over enterprises owned by Party officials.
Production and distribution that impacts on the national good is controlled by the government. As should be the case in any sensible country.
The Cambridge definition is a briefer version of the others, so no comment needed.
As far as national administration goes, (from Wiki) four cities are “municipalities” directly controlled by the national government. Two other cities are given the status of “special administrative region” (SAR). They are Hong Kong, which was once a colony of the United Kingdom and given back to China in 1997 and Macau, which Portugal gave back in 1999. These two cities remain highly autonomous or have much of their own power. Aside from the “municipalities” and the “SARs”, there are 23 provinces and five “autonomous regions” or regions with more law-making rights than the provinces and with many people of a minority group population. They are the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, the Tibet Autonomous Region or Xizang Autonomous Region, the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region or Nei Mongol Autonomous Region and the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region.
In the SARs, the central government is responsible for defense and foreign affairs but not daily operations for 50 years.
So although liberal propagandists insist on referring to China as “communist” without qualification, it’s clear from the above that the central government controls a narrow and specific band of operations that allows for a degree of freedom of thought, action, and policy determination that those in “the free world” can only hope for.
The description the Chinese have of their system is hard to dispute — Socialism with Chinese characteristics.
“The description the Chinese have of their system is hard to dispute — Socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
Beautifully unclear. Anything not socialist is written off as ‘chinese characteristics’ including, notably, economic growth underpinned by participating in capitalism.
An analogy –
Right wingers use this argument to state that the Nazi party (officially the National Socialist German Workers’ Party) was socialist, not ‘real fascism’ which they dispute is western disinformation. North Korea is officially the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
(Analogies, while distracting, offer clarity by comparison of similarity – this is the difference between whataboutism and analogy by defintion)
Capitalist democracy, in its many forms, isnt innocent – all tried political systems are stained with blood. But chinese human rights violations are not limited to the distant historical past.
“Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, the Tibet Autonomous Region or Xizang Autonomous Region.”
Is 1989 too old?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
what about 2018?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Uyghur
“the indefinite detention of up to one million Uyghurs in “political training centers”…In August 2018 the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) called upon China to end the detention, but government officials denied the existence of the camps.”
Correction – “But chinese human rights violations are not limited to the distant historical past either*.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62744522
more on satellite photographic tracking the growth in Uyghur “political training centers”
Satellite imagery is now publicly available for purchase through private companies.
Dear oh dear.
Those who come late to the party really do have an obligation to do some research.
Bob’s “gotcha” references have been dealt with here before.
He’s got some catching up to do.
But first this. “Anything not socialist is written off as ‘chinese characteristics’ including, notably, economic growth underpinned by participating in capitalism.”
For once, Bob is correct. Almost.
Their economic growth is underpinned by participating in “capitalism with Chinese characteristics”.
A major distinction that is deliberately overlooked by those with a fondness for capitalism as it operates today.
We all know the one I’m talking about.
The capitalism that kills on a daily basis.
The Chinese have tamed capitalism.
That’s a cause for celebration, not denigration.
I asked the question earlier — Do we have an empire loyalist on our hands?
That question has been answered.
As to research, when it comes to non-controversial topics such as the structure of China that I raised earlier, wikipedia is quite good. In many areas, very good.
But when the topic involves US foreign policy it’s just a propaganda rag.
And it pains me to say that the same applies to Britannica and the BBC.
Yes, plain old propaganda, as we saw with Tiananmen and the Uyghur “genocide”.
Tiananmen was a colour revolution attempt as Bob would know if he had conducted proper research.
There was protests, but they were for reform of the Party, not a call for liberal democracy.
And the violence began with the protestors, not the army.
As for the “genocide”, Caitlin Johnstone covered it nicely, more than once I think.
Caitlin. “The “Uyghur genocide” narrative is a lie, the “debt trap diplomacy” narrative is a lie, the “social credit score” narrative is a lie, they’re lying about Taiwan, and they’re lying about China trying to conquer the world. They lied about every other disobedient nation, and they’re lying about China.”
And before Bob protests that this is just one person’s opinion, I’ve plenty more to dole out slowly, just to prolong the pain.
So Bob needs to pull his head out of unsavoury places and do some proper research instead of coming here to insult readers with cheap Empire propaganda.
All my sources are lies? One unlinked reference to a journalists opinion to claim 3 independent sources are “propaganda rags”…?
This is why I offered publicly available satellite imagery with an example. Exclusion of foreign journalists (and calling them liars) can hide criticism. But evidence of that scale is hard to hide.
You call me an empire loyalist, but I criticize my government daily, a freedom I am proud to still have. Is it capitalism that the chinese tamed, or criticism?
So if, like a flat earther or a holocaust denier, you only trust the evidence of your own eyes, head back to your “cheap empire” and check. If there’s nothing to hide I’m sure they wont mind.
“do some proper research” Steve says, but only from HIS sources, which align better with CCP policy. (all other sources are fake, don’t ask why or your credit score may be affected)
I’m sure he will be back with a long, indirect explanation about how western media is ‘fake news’, and pro china narratives are ‘pure truth’ and never incentivized. Its impossible to be wrong when you just label all counterfactual evidence as lies. (the last BBC link also presents chinese counterclaims – that these massive facilities, in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, made over 5 years for thousands of occupants, are for terrorists).
We suspected Hitler of political, religious and racial persecution long before WW2, it was only after defeat, when they could no longer hide, that light came to the scope of atrocities. A similar, but slower reveal came after the fall of the USSR. I hope I’m wrong about china.
Steve (referencing 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre) “And the violence began with the protestors, not the army.”
Violence such as student hunger protests. ‘Tank man’ famously shook his bag of groceries angrily – at an army tank. The army (not the police) was sent to disperse this ‘dangerous protest’, with tanks.
What insane political demands did they have?
“greater political accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech” – pretty extreme!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
‘But that reporting is biased lies’ – Crushing political dissent with tanks often creates negative emotions in those being crushed.
” “Tank Man” has become an enduring symbol of nonviolent resistance… The photograph of the event became widely circulated internationally and is often regarded as one of the most recognizable images of the 20th century. It is subject to censorship in China”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
People were rightly appalled that USA operated Guantanamo Bay for political prisoners. The chinese have numerous camps, many visible from space.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/satellite-data-shows-uyghur-detention-camp-expansion-xinjiang-china/i16kk3n01
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
https://thehuman-rights.com/uyghur-detention-camps-1-8-million-detained/Xinjiang_internment_camps
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/resources/new-aspi-research-documenting-xinjiangs-detention-system-in-uyghur/
https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/xinjiang-police-files-uyghur-mugshots-detention/
https://www.humanrightsresearch.org/post/persecution-of-uyghurs-in-xinjiang-torture-crimes-against-humanity-and-genocide
The more I research the worse it all looks.
But it may be even worse than that
“China has always dismissed and denied these allegations — the state claiming in 2019 that “vocational education and training centres” in Xinjiang, as well as tight security measures, are necessary “to prevent the breeding and spread of terrorism and religious extremism”.”
(Important note – ‘vocational education and training centres’ with restrictions in breeding for an ethnic subgroup, accused of terrorism. Political extremism ‘spreads’, animals ‘breed’)
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/satellite-data-shows-uyghur-detention-camp-expansion-xinjiang-china/i16kk3n01
You used Cambridge earlier as a credible source.
Eugenics defintion –
The idea that it is possible to improve humans by allowing only particular people to produce children, which most people now do not accept or support because of the idea’s connection with racist and Nazi theories and actions.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/eugenics
You also tried merriam webster
“eugenics
noun
the practice or advocacy of controlled selective breeding of human populations (as by sterilization) to improve the populations’ genetic composition”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eugenics
THe SBS article continues
“According to ASPI research, between 2017 and 2020, approximately 16,000 mosques — more than half of those in Xinjiang — have been destroyed or damaged because of government policies that restrict religious practices.”
“A lead researcher of the site, Uyghur anthropologist Dr Rahile Dawut…According to the US-based Dui Hua Foundation human rights group, Dawut was convicted on charges of promoting ‘splittism’, which is used by the CCP to describe activities that threaten state security, and in 2018 she was sentenced to life in prison.”
“Splittism” is an approximation of the chinese term fēnlièzhǔyì (分裂主义). It is a close, but inexact synonym for seperatism. Similar to getting life in prison for promoting Secessionism in Western Australia or the Canadian ‘Alberta separatism’ referendum.
“People were rightly appalled that USA operated Guantanamo Bay for political prisoners. The chinese have numerous camps, many visible from space.”
Self correction – USA still operates Guantanamo Bay detention camp. It has held “at least 780 people”.
Trump has recently (2025) signed an order to catch up to scale of chinese camps.
Bob, do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole deeper.
“Reuters journalists observing satellite imagery found that thirty-nine camps almost tripled in size between April 2017 and August 2018; they covered a total area roughly the size of 140 soccer fields.”
“In 2020, researchers documented 201 reeducation camps and 179 detention centers and prisons.” (In the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (XUAR) alone, total population 25.5mil – 2021)
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
For scale, according to the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, Germany operated 23 main concentration camps.
Odd way to describe compiling reports of crimes. So keen to defend ethnic cleansing leefe? Surely the crime is serious enough that accusations shouldn’t be dismissed flippantly? You could be an advisor for Pauline Hanson, she has no love lost for muslims either. or Maybe Netanyahu needs some work done?
I had a reply almost ready for Bob, but had to delay it as my son came around for a couple of beers.
When I returned, Bob had progressed from feral to frothing.
I guess it’s not easy being a servant of the Empire.
He did not enjoy being accused of spreading empire propaganda, so he responded by spreading a truckload of empire propaganda!
That just kept coming and coming!
I’ll just deal with one or two items — a comprehensive response would take a week, and would not be the end of it, because the nonsense that is spewed out about the very few who successfully resist the encroachment of Empire is endless.
The Empire cannot tolerate dissent.
Dissent signals the death of the Empire.
As Caitlin implied, the lies will continue until China is totally subdued and compliant.
And Bob will contribute to that.
How proud he must be.
I stated earlier that Britannica was unreliable in regard to Empire policy, and at the first Britannica link Bob gave, when the matter of violence in Xinjiang was introduced, we see how subtle emphasis can distort, and ultimately, falsify.
It went Chinese authorities responded by cracking down on Uyghurs suspected of being dissidents and separatists.
Seems pretty neutral, doesn’t it?
Trouble is, those targeted were not just suspected, they were in fact actual dissidents, separatists, and the fact unmentioned, they were terrorists.
What happened was that China was engaged in long-term counter-terrorism efforts in Xinjiang, in response to a series of deadly terrorist incidents carried out by extremist and separatist forces.
That response to terrorism has been labeled as genocide by many in the West in an attempt to inflame the situation, despite the contrary view of the UN report.
Has the US interfered at all in this, as is their wont?
Of course.
Colour revolution has always been a successful tool in advancing the interests of the Empire.
The US State Department Report in 2020 stated that a Xinjiang genocide occurred during the year.
This despite the fact that the US knew that terrorist groups operated in the region, and had even listed some. In November 2020, in a particularly telling move, the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), known for terrorist attacks in Xinjiang (the reason for China’s crackdown on terrorism) was quietly removed from the US list of foreign terrorist organisations.
Where have we seen that before?
Syria perhaps?
Elements that are missing from the Empire narrative — Xinjiang’s detention authorities trained Uyghur detainees for useful work skills.
China’s de-radicalisation programs are consistent with the 2006 UN Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy for fighting terrorism and similar to those in France, the UK, the US and Australia; and some Middle East Islamic countries.
Muslim-majority Southeast Asian countries now have similar de-radicalisation programs.
More from Caitlin — It should be more widely understood that denying the “Uyghur genocide” propaganda narrative is not the same as denying that there was an authoritarian crackdown in Xinjiang. Empire apologists tend to conflate these two points in a motte-and-bailey fallacy wherein the much harder claim to defend (Uyghur genocide) is misrepresented as one and the same as a much easier claim to defend (authoritarian actions in Xinjiang).
That Beijing began implementing a giant police action in Xinjiang in 2014 involving large-scale detention of certain Uyghurs in reeducation camps is not seriously debated, and is not denied by Beijing. What’s denied is that any of this was done with the intention — or the effect of — eliminating or diminishing the Uyghur people or their culture. There is simply no basis for that claim, and mountains of evidence to the contrary.
These reeducation camps have been spun by western propagandists as concentration camps and extermination camps in a ham-fisted effort to frame Xi Jinping as another Adolf Hitler, when in reality they really were re-education camps in the literal sense of the term. They were facilities designed to indoctrinate/de-indoctrinate Uyghurs believed to have become radicalized into an ideology that had plunged Xinjiang into violence and chaos and threatened to tear apart the PRC. By all accounts — including by the western press — these facilities were decommissioned around 2019–2020.
This was all covered in a recent report by two prominent German sinologists which didn’t get enough attention. Were there abuses in Xinjiang? It’s hard to imagine how there wouldn’t have been in a sweeping police action involving large-scale involuntary detainment. You can criticize Beijing for those abuses all you want, but what you can’t do is legitimately call it anything like genocide.
When Uyghur separatist groups began inflicting acts of terror with the goal of driving the Chinese government out of Xinjiang and creating their own state, Beijing had essentially three choices:
1.To engage in a US-style campaign of mass military slaughter against these groups until they were defeated,
2.To allow a violent uprising of what would inevitably become western-backed jihadists as they had just seen happen in Libya and Syria carve away a massive and geostrategically crucial part of China to be exploited by the US and its allies, or
3.To find some alternative to 1 and 2.
Beijing went with option number three, and the alternative it found was the aggressive deradicalization campaign it ended up implementing and the re-education facilities it has been so widely criticized for.
Again, you can criticize Beijing for how it went about addressing its dilemma in Xinjiang all you want, but it was plainly universes less draconian than the US approach of killing millions and displacing tens of millions in its barbaric “war on terror”. And unlike the “war on terror”, Beijing’s approach actually worked, which is why those facilities were shut down and Xinjiang is returning to normal.
In regard to Tiananmen, Denis Hay had an excellent piece about Tiananmen here at AIMN.
https://theaimn.net/what-really-happened-at-tiananmen-square/
‘All Bobs evidence was propaganda, my two journalists reports are beyond question though’
Good to know – if I ever want discredit a decade of satellite imagery, dozens of independent sources, journalists and human right organizations all at once, just accuse them of propaganda, credit two journalists doing opinion pieces, and only link one.
I’m going to go use Denis Hay articles to win so many debates now! What a time to be alive!
Im glad denis can ask and answer the big questions like.
“Q: Was the CIA involved?
A: There is no conclusive evidence, but patterns of U.S. interference in similar uprisings raise valid concerns worth more in-depth investigation.”
Patterns, similarities, these are the valid concerns, not evidence!
I shall write an opinion piece –
Q – was there mossad interference in Xinjiang Uyghuir persecution?
A-There is no conclusive evidence, but patterns of Israeli intervention in similar repressions raise valid concerns worth more in-depth investigation.
End sarcasm
Imagine USA had a protest of up to 1 million people, asking for things like “greater political accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech”. The government holds talks with protesters, but neither side gives in, so Trump sends in troops and tanks. 241 people die (CCP official tally).
Even if some were troops, thats a massacre. Then for decades after, that topic is censored.
Under these circumstances, I would be suspicious of USAs official account.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
More concisely – ‘OK boomer(s)’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_boomer
From Richard Dennis Australia Institute 260826:
“Earlier this week, the Murdoch Press promoted the mining industry’s claims that the push to end fossil fuel subsidies and put a 25% tax on gas exports is coming from “noisy activists” with “shadowy overseas backers”.
It’s just laughable. Big mining companies like Adani, BHP and Mitsubishi are entirely or substantially foreign owned. It’s these foreign companies that are making these claims via their lobby group, the Minerals Council of Australia (MCA).
The MCA and their foreign members routinely lie to protect the current tax system and the billions in diesel subsidies they receive from the Australian Government each year.
For example, the MCA ran ads that claimed mining paid more tax than all other industries combined. After we exposed that lie, those ads largely disappeared. But they’ve been replaced with others that claim the mining industry pays “enough tax to fund Medicare” – also false, by our estimate they were $94 billion short over the last 10 years!
Meanwhile, the mining industry is taking a swipe at “noisy activists” like you and the 21,000+ people – the supposed “shadowy overseas backers” – who fund our independent, “noisy” research that lays the facts bare: mining, gas and other big companies don’t pay their fair share. Our gas, and even sometimes our coal, is given away for free to foreign companies that pay little to no tax, all while wrecking our climate and making massive profits.
What’s even more laughable is the MCA’s solution: “election mandates” – that voters should have a say before major tax changes.
Bring it on! Australians know what’s fair and they are fed up with the gas industry’s free ride on our resources. It’s why more than 90,000 Australians have now signed our petition to hold a national vote on a 25% gas export tax.”
“Australians know what’s fair”
Ok, I guess that explains our current total successes in every industry. Who do I make the check out to for all this fairness were having? ‘Best generation ever’?
Ok boomer
@ Bob Homes: Really you need to check your American history.
“Imagine USA had a protest of up to 1 million people, asking for things like “greater political accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech”.
1) Uhm ….. Something about the 60s Martin Luther King Jr ”I have a dream” March on Washington where about a million Americans demonstrated in favour of dismantling the racist policies of successive Washington governments since the 1861-1865 Civil War.
2) the 19602-70s anti-Vietnam marches growing over the duration of the unsuccessful Imperialist US war against Vietnam, including the four day Woodstock concert , only about 300,000 attendees, but all against the war.
“The [PRC China} government holds talks with protesters, but neither side gives in, so Trump sends in troops and tanks. 241 people die (CCP official tally).
Even if some were troops, that’s a massacre. Then for decades after, that topic is censored.”
Under these circumstances, I would be suspicious of USAs official account.”
So, the TACO Trumpery ICE policy to snatch US citizens off the street, often with violence, jail them before export to a Central American off-shore prison without trial for allegedly being ”illegal immigrants” is a good policy by your thinking??
How about PPOTUS (Pederast Protector of the USA) TACO policy of giving ICE agents legal immunity for killing US citizens who allegedly obstruct ICE activities?? This sounds more like the old Soviet KGB policies brought to the American Dream after Trumpery consulted with his ”good mate” Putin.
Or is it just your lack of knowledge??
Or maybe ”Bob Homes” is a Republican troll AI application trying to justify the demented ravings of a geriatric four times bankrupt, convicted felon who is a compulsive liar and rarely pays his bills??
Now what did these two events acheive, that is being denied even happened here? Change? Its almost like your examples are proof of progress in those western nations? Then we have the propaganda pals telling everyone chinas failures are all just US psyops.
Maybe bob homes is a medically retired aus veteran sick to death of self deluded boomers telling everyone they alone know our saving grace? Trust us, but we cant explain it empirically. ‘We know’.
You have more political power then any other age demographic right now.
Both political sides of your age demographic caused this fustercluck. Sit down and let a new generation take over.
Otherwise I guess we will have to wait for you all to age out before we can finally begin to undo the decades of problems you insistently continue to compound.
Ok boomer
No Bob, it’s not approval or excusing of ethnic cleansing. I’m not taking part in what this comments section has evolved into.
I’m just hoping for a little restraint and consideration here, because watching people constantly bashing their heads against the concrete walls of one another’s certainty is neither amusing nor edifying. Both you and Steve are rusted on with your basic stance towards China. Neither will shift. Fine, but that’s your problem; it isn’t necessary to inflict it upon the world at large.
TL/DR: Get a room.
You and other comments have clearly said enough, leefe. Ethnic cleansing apologism with a dash of self flagellation.
Extreme left politcs is just as intolerant and deluded as extreme right wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Why is there an internet meme about complete generational disconnection from reality? A concept was so prominent in our society we created a new phrase for it.
Refusal of empirical evidence, on the basis of unfounded opinion and vaguely asserting western cause.
I can quote you directly, and provide direct counterfactual evidence. It began with relative composure and sincere intent. But it has unveiled deceptive content, disingenuous counterpoints and generous helpings of deluded groupthink. “Bob, do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole deeper.”
What do you think hanson or trumps increasing popularity with voters is an unrelated phenomena?
Ok boomer
The phrase has developed into a retort for resistance to technological change, climate change denial, marginalization of members of minority groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_boomer
The average age of members in the 48th Australian Parliament, which convened in 2025, is approximately 52 years. This reflects a significant age disparity when compared to the general Australian population, where the median age is around 38 years.
TLDR – OK boomer
You sure you aren’t Steve’s alter ego? You both do the same bloody thing: attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words.
leefe, I’m rather surprised by your “rusted on” comment.
You’ve watched me operate for long enough to know that my main consideration is truth, which means that I’m fine with someone correcting me.
I get sarcastic from time to time, but never when I’m corrected.
This also means that I have no tolerance for those who come here spreading misinformation, particularly when that misinfo supports the greatest predator in world history.
You’ll also note that I try to keep discussions interesting for readers, by introducing new material.
So, “rusted on” it’s gunna be.
See what you think of this tidbit.
This blew my socks off.
I referred earlier to US interference in Xinjiang.
It turns out to be worse than I thought.
In 2021, after China had normalised the region, restored stability, and thereby demolished the US narrative, the US in desperation passed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, ostensibly to assist those alleged to be suffering under forced labour.
Under the Act, those importing goods from Xinjiang have to prove that the goods are not produced by forced labour.
That’s the official story.
The real story is somewhat different.
The US ambition for global domination is so twisted in its thinking, so perverted and evil, that the Act states unequivocally that among its targets are goods produced as part of poverty alleviation programs put in place by the Chinese government.
Here is the clause:
(3)Goods, wares, articles, and merchandise described in Section 4 (a) that are imported into the United States from third countries and are mined, produced or manufactured in part in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region or by persons working with the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region government or the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps for purposes of the “poverty alleviation” program or the “pairing assistance” program.
So, yes, they are specifically targeting the poorest of the poor – the individuals being helped by what the United Nations and the World Bank have described as the biggest and most successful rescue operation for people in poverty, in history.
This targeting of Uyghur workers is further evidence of an abuse of human rights, rather than a concern for human rights as they claim.
Their only interest in the Uyghurs is the extent to which they can be used to advance US policy.
Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act available here — https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1155/text
“You sure you aren’t Steve’s alter ego? You both do the same bloody thing: attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words.”
No direct quote. You called me out for “attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words”, then you fail to quote me…seriously?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy
Context – I had just provided 7 comments with 10 seperate links to sources evidencing ethnic cleansing.
Your response – “Bob, do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole deeper.”
The evidence is literally right here. If you wana take a stab at contextualising this so it doesnt look like you just offhandedly dismissed evidence of ethnic cleansing the opportunity is here.
How about it boomer? Step up to the crease, put your money where your mouth is.
Otherwise – ok boomer
Steves audience isnt fully backing him – his narcissistic confidence evaporates. Its almost like 400+ forced labor camps of an ethnic minority and the products they produce are unethical? Who knew?
For a great case study in how the US attempts to control its manufactured narratives, see here, where they falsified data to establish a genocide — https://consortiumnews.com/2021/02/22/the-us-genocide-accusation-against-china/’
From the article —The U.S. government’s accusation of genocide against China stems from a single source: a June 2020 paper by Adrian Zenz, a right-wing German researcher affiliated with the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and neoconservative Jamestown Foundation in Washington, D.C.
Zenz is one of Bob’s experts, here —
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
According to Consortium News, Zenz is a far-right Christian fundamentalist who has said he is “led by God” against China’s government, deplores homosexuality and gender equality, and has taught exclusively in evangelical theological institutions.
Now, that’s what I call an expert!
But I’m here to expose, not to belittle! 🙂
The focus of Zenz was genocide by birth control, (a topic referred to earlier by Bob) but the article exposes how Zenz deliberately misinterpreted/falsified freely available data.
Turns out the birth control was nation-wide.
So, was not aimed only at Uyghurs, and was certainly not genocide, or ethnic cleansing, or any other label.
At one period, Uyghurs even had exemptions for birth control measures imposed elsewhere!
That’s a very poorly managed genocide, I must say.
Throughout his paper, Zenz framed the expansion of public healthcare services in Xinjiang as evidence of a genocide in the making.
For example, Zenz pointed to a photograph of Uyghur residents of rural regions of Xinjiang receiving medical consultation at a free health clinic as part of an “effort to enforce the thorough implementation of increasing intrusive birth control efforts.”
However, the photograph depicted an elderly couple who were far too old to have children.
This is typical of the nonsense on which the US bases its foreign policies.
The full Consortium News piece is detailed.
Well worth a look inside the belly of the beast.
Broken link. Good start, bet that ‘case study’ really tied it all together. (Sarcasm)
Then you use my source, after finally reading it, to announce its not just a “propaganda rag”.
Your position is as fluid as a politician, or a puddle of piss. Things are only true when they support your dogmatic beliefs, and otherwise its CIA/illuminati psyops.
Go back to the nursing home, dotard. Yes, we know how you think you already saved the world. Trump says he did too. Ill line up your ignoble peace prize.
Sit down boomer, we dont want you having a tumble, you might break something, like our country (Australia if your forgetting) …oh wait, too late.
Im sorry, correction – it seems you continued to assert my source was a ‘propaganda rag’. This time you used religious predjudice to colour an argument.
I should start a bingo card with logical fallacies used here, but Id just have to instantly mark every square.
How silly of me, those mass detention camps with admitted tight security on ‘breeding’ are a kindness, we just misunderstand!?! Sounds like a real Utopia, preparing to move to Xinjiang? Generous gifts from CCP await you!
On one hand you could be a pro CCP plant, on the other, you could be an average narcissist moron advocating that a secretive one party government is not to blame for its own problems. Not only that, but the average narcissist is part of a select niche group, and only they know the truth. Ive seen less blind faith in evangelists tbh, but thanks for exemplifying the “ok boomer” movement.
Sling cia conspiracy bullsh!t at a wall, some of it will stick. Insulate yourself to a little echo chamber, attempt to fallaciously discredit or outcast any evidence of alternatives. Ramp up toxicity and moral grandstanding. A broken clock is right twice a day.
Ok boomer
“You sure you aren’t Steve’s alter ego? You both do the same bloody thing: attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words.”
No direct quote. You called me out for “attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words”, then you fail to quote me…seriously?
Sorry, I didn’t realise your memory and/or reading comprehension were so bad that my meaning wasn’t obvious.
“So keen to defend ethnic cleansing leefe?”
“Ethnic cleansing apologism with a dash of self flagellation.”
Show me where I explicitly defended or excused ethnic cleansing.
You haven’t had that much to do with me, so a word of warning: if I didn’t explicitly say something – and/or I was clearly being sarcastic – you have no way of knowing whether I meant what you want it to mean. I’m usually very careful with choosing my words.
I did not excuse ethnic cleansing. I did not apologise for it. I did not defend it. I didn’t even fuckingwell mention it. I pointedly said I was not participating in that part of the discussion and I don’t have to justify that refusal to you or anyone else. DON’T read anything into it other than that I am not participating.
Now, if you and Steve insist, continue with the skull/concrete competition.
TLDR – your virtue signalling and the resulting cognitive dissonance is causing you psychological discomfort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
“attribute meanings that don’t exist in people’s actual written words.”
“meaning wasn’t obvious”
Was i meant to read your mind, unspoken intent or feelings?
I quoted you and provided context (my prior comments), how much more direct does it have to be? Evidence for ethnic cleansing, was called “digging holes”. Digging holes was used as a metaphor, warning that when in an untenable position, it is best to stop making the situation worse. ‘Providing evidence = making the situation worse’.
The Narcissist’s Prayer
“That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”
The same reason trump CANNOT give a straight answer.
You put out words. You are responsible for their content.
You were given multiple opportunities to clarify your exact meaning. Your absolute refusal shows either your virtue signalling, and only pretending to care, or that my interpretation of your comment is essentially accurate.
You cared enough to make the intial and following comment to admonish me, but not enough to even clarify your position on the topic? By that logic its clear – you decided, you want to score cheap points in a debate to feel good about your stance on a topic more then you want to help people understand (your view on) the topic and thus help fix a causal issue. Aka virtue signalling
PS – Steve will offer help in a moment, he needs his audience on side again. He’ll likely offer you a solution too, his religious dogma.
Try this Bob.
I’d hate you to miss out.
https://consortiumnews.com/2021/02/22/the-us-genocide-accusation-against-china/
If it fails, (works for me) just google The US ‘Genocide’ Accusation Against China Consortium News
As I’m sure you have already
TLDR (summary of below)- If you directly imply either wing of politics is inherently wrong, you are not presenting a genuine argument.
Lol
Lead sentence.
“The claim relies on data abuse and baseless claims by a far-right ideologue, Gareth Porter and Max Blumenthal report.”
Italics added for emphasis.
ad hominem /hŏm′ə-nĕm″, -nəm/
adjective
refers to when a speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute (such as political beleif) of the person making an argument rather than the substance of the argument itself.
Remember how I mentioned logical fallacy bingo? This ones a type of informal fallacy.
Lead.
Sentence.
(The lead sentence (aka “topic sentence”) is the sentence that leads the rest of the paragraph.)
Specifically, political rhetoric is the art of persuasion through spoken or written communication in the context of government and societal discourse. It aims to influence public opinion and often evokes emotional responses while presenting factual arguments.
See all this? Thats how you can justify calling something a “propaganda rag”. Your generation didnt grow up with digital information speeds. Lies sell
Left wing v right wing identity politics. Its whats currently killing America folks.
Was i meant to read your mind, unspoken intent or feelings?
You were supposed to read the words. Is it really that hard?
You cared enough to make the intial (sic) and following comment to admonish me, but not enough to even clarify your position on the topic? By that logic its clear – you decided, you want to score cheap points in a debate to feel good about your stance on a topic more then (sic) you want to help people understand (your view on) the topic …
I wanted the pointless back-and-forth to stop because it’s bloody pointless. Neither of you will change your views because of this exchange, so what is it for?
I freely admit I could have made the meaning of the hole-digging post clearer. I was not referring to the substance of your claims, simply the fact that, from my experience, it is pointless carrying on this sort of argument with some people.
However, once I clearly and explicitly say that I am not excusing ethnic cleansing, it would be best to take heed of that. Don’t double down … or, to be more apposite, don’t dig the hole deeper.
Now, I exeunt, stage left, sans bear, so you may continue, but leave me out of it.
“I freely admit I could have made the meaning of the hole-digging post clearer. I was not referring to the substance of your claims, simply the fact that, from my experience, it is pointless carrying on this sort of argument with some people.”
The entire problem – a generational culture that absolutely refuses to engage once a difference is established. Cant have disagreement, twouldnt be proper and dignified! We must agree to disagree, so that we can go on saying we want change, while actively refusing its offer.
“Why do people follow insert scumbag politician?”
Ever refused to elaborate why your “virtuous view” is justified and inherently correct? Supremely condescending. Bible bashers often get hate for this very reason.
Its part of why you keep coming back. Im very confident, and I can use logical explanations and evidence to elaborate why.
You hold a belief, you might not even be conscious of it. Im presenting evidence and logic which contradict it.
Ill link it again. Its a quirk of human psychology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
The widely disseminated story of ethic cleansing in Xinjiang can be brushed away in three sentences.
In 2010 the ethnic minority population in Xinjiang was 12,985,900.
In 2020 after the completion of the alleged genocide, the ethnic minority population was 14,932,200.
An increase of almost 2 million.
The Chinese must learn to do better.
They’re giving authoritarianism a bad name.
Zero evidence provided to substantiate any claims made here. (I have to ask for it, like its a favour, something luxurious)
Sarcastic retort to finish.
Check populations of nations pre and post ww2. First example in my head.
In 1939, the population of Great Britain was approximately 47.7 million.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/
The population of Great Britain in 1946 was estimated at around 48.5 million.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_in_the_United_Kingdom
They ‘grew’ during ww2. That was fascism doing some of its worst. More logical fallacies. Im not going to continue to list yours. For they are many.
Im not Jesus, and I’m not sure you dont know what your doing. Some I’m unsure if I forgive you.
Well, we’ve played long enough.
It’s time to get serious and bring this to a close.
I’ve held on to this one for long enough.
Here is my grand finale, my coup de grace, my mercy stroke for which no sane person would attempt a refutation, or even a murmur of dissent.
Silence please.
Hold the applause.
This from Australian law academic Gim Teh, who was a member of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.
Firstly, the persisting claim in the Western world is really about the US manufacturing anti-China sentiments to demonise China.
That the “Uyghur card” is just part of a strategy to exert pressure on China is confirmed in a 2018 video clip where Lawrence Wilkerson, a US Colonel and former Chief of Staff to a US Secretary of State, admitted Uyghur ‘unrest’ in Xinjiang was a CIA narrative planned to destabilise China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpfbZ9URRUI
This CIA approach was corroborated by whistle-blower Sibel Edmonds, a former CIA interpreter, who (in a video interview) talked about how the US had planned and acted to destabilise Xinjiang.
As she put it, the US plan is to make an issue out of thin air and exploit it – “We hope Xinjiang to be the next Taiwan.”
https://www.facebook.com/ChineseEmbassyinUS/videos/fbi/494883221537024/
Underwriting the CIA activities is a conspicuous anti-China program financed by US Congress.
Through the America Competes Act 2022, Congress allocated $500 million a year for media outlets to produce journalism critical of China.
For example, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) has handed over US$8.76 million to insurgent Uyghur groups.
Much funding goes to the US Agency for Global Media (USAGM) to oversee anti-China propaganda outlets such as Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Free Asia
Full story — https://johnmenadue.com/post/2024/04/no-xinjiang-genocide/
Oh allegations of political interference from youtube, facebook and lets check the topic sentence from this article.
“The UN Human Rights Report of August 31, 2022 says what’s happening in Xinjiang constitutes “crimes against humanity”. In plain English, this is saying it is not genocide under the UN Genocide Convention.”
Just “crimes against humanity”, not genocide.
Phew! What a relief! Dont worry guys, chinas not genociding Uyghurs! That “Uyghur card” is only crimes against humanity!
crime against humanity
noun
a very serious crime, for example murder, committed against a civilian or group of civilians, usually ordered by a government or other people who have political power.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/crime-against-humanity
From these arguments I can only conclude your either a paid political spammer or have questionable ethics regarding crimes against humanity.
Please do see yourself out, Im feeling nauseated by your arguments.
@ Steve: Thank you for your concluding remarks to the Bob Homes AI troll.
In my final post on this article I take exception to the historically incorrect Bob Homes statement: ‘ The entire problem – a generational culture that absolutely refuses to engage once a difference is established. Cant have disagreement, it wouldn’t be proper and dignified!”
Bob Homes must have been asleep throughout the 60s and 70s when our generation changed the world. Sexual liberation thanks to the Pill; anti-imperialism against the US manufacturing establishment that controlled US foreign policy for their own benefit, the rejection of generational military service by conscription, the redundancy of women’s tortuous underwear demonstrating the women’s liberation movement and subsequently (allegedly) equal pay for the same job. These were just some of the progress.
But then Internet trolls were not available during those times, so it is simply a “I was not there” matter.
AI must seem like magic to some. I live near the New England area, I occasionally shop in Armidale.
“I wasnt there” accurate, sorry I wasnt born by then, truly.
What was your generation left with? Wheres the economic success and geopolitical stability the silent generation left you?
Know what my generation is known for?
High rates of tertiary education, high rates of debt and experiencing most recessions/downturns during working life so far.
Success has a thousand fathers, but failures are orphans.
Hi Canguro, long may you live,
did you say your wife was from Jiangxi?
I was there recently, also the Huangshan area.
Superb, the people, the forests and the mountains – just superb.
AI said that the area was poor because of the terrain and that tourism is the mainstay now. The high speed rail was incredible. The number of tourists it was able to move about, it was of course the Summer holidays, was staggering.
The weather got hot though.
At one stage, we did 348 km/hr on one train, and it ran over time. The transport systems are brilliant.
Like many others, I’ve been wasting time here only to find out I’ve been wasting time. Time and patience we may have, but, better might be possible.
I hear you, Phil.
Another discussion derailed by Mr Homes.
I’ve placed him in moderation, meaning that his comments would have to be cleared by Michael, Carol or myself.
Be on the lookout for sock puppets.
I’m sure Michael won’t mind if I open up his post for comments again, now that Mr Homes is shut out.
Ideally, one should not be refused, nor should you feel it necessary, but, in a world of haloes, horrors, heaven, hardships, handjobs, heartaches, holiness and horse’s arses, peace entices. Ah, how quiet…( I’m the horse’s arse…no offence.)
It was justified, Phil. On another thread Canguro asked:
“Does anyone else who reads/comments in these pages get the impression that since the Bob Homes character’s arrival, the generally agreeable ebb & flow of comments and arguments across all topics has taken on the appearance of having been infiltrated by a force on behalf of chaos, an inchoate presence that leaves others in its wake wondering just what the hell happened, and just how did this bog sprite manage to get its talons into the pages of The AIMN and seed discontent to the extent that it has? Or is it just me?
Tip: It needs to be ignored.”
I replied:
“Yes, Canguro. Me.
I keep a close eye on the site’s stats, and you might be interested to hear that traffic to the site slows down when Bob Homes is active here.
I have also noticed that there are less people commenting when he’s here.”
Hi Thommo, not Jiangxi but Guangxi, further to the southwest, abutting the border with Vietnam. She grew up in Liuzhou, a city between Guilin… famous for its limestone karst landscapes, and Nanning, the capital, to the south. She was headhunted by talent scouts when she was around ten years old, on the basis of athletic potential, taken initially to Nanning, then up to Beijing where she attended Beijing Sports High School, the feeder institution for Beijing Sports University, the premier faculty in China for training athletes. She was an archer, the second highest ranked competitive archer in the country at that time.
After graduation with a Masters in Education, she then spent 21 years at Jinan Sports University in Shandong, and was made the youngest fully tenured professor. She has said, more than once, that she has had a dream ride, a great education, all paid for by the Chinese government, tutoring & accommodation, something that is a vanishingly rare experience in western cultures.
I’m glad you enjoyed your time in China. It’s an amazing country, and generally very friendly towards Wàiguó rén – foreigners. (rén is the stem for ‘person’, hence, Àodàlìyǎ rén – Australian).
So much to see in that huge land. I hope I can return one of these days.
Thanks Canguro.
Silence dissent. Very effective
All threads with my comments contain the most replies.
Who is closing discussion and who stimulated it?
Nah just keep repeating the same old stories. Young people cant know stuff. Our generation is fixing everything insert excuse for broken nation.
No new information! Close the loop! Silence dissent!