The appropriate time

DAWE: Thanks for your time.

CLARKE: Good to be here.

DAWE: You’re a senior government spokesman on the Middle East.

CLARKE: I am. I’m across the whole region. Well, not across it. Near it.

DAWE: Twelve countries have signed a statement on trade with Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

CLARKE: They have, and we congratulate them. Terrific effort.

DAWE: Australia didn’t sign.

CLARKE: No, but we were very much part of the process.

DAWE: Which part?

CLARKE: The early part. We were there right through the part before the signing. That’s the most important part. Anyone can sign.

DAWE: Why didn’t Australia sign?

CLARKE: Practical challenges.

DAWE: What were they?

CLARKE: Well, the main one was the signing.

DAWE: The Foreign Minister said the government was worried about unintended consequences for Australian businesses, for Palestinians and for Israelis.

CLARKE: That’s right. We’re worried about everybody.

DAWE: In that order.

CLARKE: It’s alphabetical.

DAWE: It isn’t.

CLARKE: It is in the Australian alphabet. A for Australian. You start at home.

DAWE: The Palestinian Authority supported the ban.

CLARKE: And we have enormous respect for that.

DAWE: So why not do it?

CLARKE: Because it might hurt Palestinians.

DAWE: They asked for it.

CLARKE: Exactly. And that’s what worries us. People ask for all sorts of things. You can’t just go around giving people what they ask for. Where would it end?

DAWE: Israel is offering settlement companies up to 200,000 shekels each to find new markets.

CLARKE: Well, there you go. They’ve got it in hand.

DAWE: Israel’s ambassador called Australia’s decision “a wise decision”.

CLARKE: Very gratifying. You don’t get that kind of feedback from everybody.

DAWE: The Palestinian Authority didn’t say that.

CLARKE: No, well, they’re not across the detail.

DAWE: The government says it is pursuing targeted measures instead.

CLARKE: Very targeted. Extremely targeted.

DAWE: What’s the target?

CLARKE: Illegal settlements and settler violence.

DAWE: And the measures?

CLARKE: That’s the second half. You don’t rush the second half. You get the target right first, then the measures.

DAWE: When will we know what they are?

CLARKE: Not at this time.

DAWE: When?

CLARKE: No, that’s the when. “At this time” is the time. We’re just not doing it then.

DAWE: So when will you do it?

CLARKE: At a time that isn’t this one.

DAWE: Which one?

CLARKE: A later one. They’re very reliable, later times. There’s always another one coming.

DAWE: The International Court of Justice says states must take steps to prevent trade or investment relations that help maintain the illegal situation.

CLARKE: And we are taking steps.

DAWE: What steps?

CLARKE: Appropriate ones.

DAWE: Which are?

CLARKE: The appropriate ones.

DAWE: That’s not very specific.

CLARKE: No, but it is very appropriate.

DAWE: Are you moving forward?

CLARKE: Absolutely.

DAWE: Towards the measures?

CLARKE: Eventually.

DAWE: When?

CLARKE: Well, we’re actually going backwards at the moment.

DAWE: Backwards?

CLARKE: Yes. To get a longer run-up.

DAWE: A longer run-up to what?

CLARKE: The appropriate time.

DAWE: Why do you need a longer run-up?

CLARKE: You don’t want to rush into these things.

DAWE: So you’re walking backwards towards the appropriate time?

CLARKE: Precisely.

DAWE: Isn’t that going in the wrong direction?

CLARKE: Not if you know where you’re going.

DAWE: Where are you going?

CLARKE: Backwards.

DAWE: To the appropriate time?

CLARKE: Eventually.

DAWE: Apartments in West Bank settlements have been marketed to investors at events in Sydney and Melbourne.

CLARKE: Have they? Whereabouts?

DAWE: Ma’ale Adumim. Efrat. The Gush Etzion bloc.

CLARKE: No, whereabouts in Sydney?

DAWE: Does that matter?

CLARKE: Of course it matters. We’re talking property.

DAWE: Property in illegal settlements.

CLARKE: Location is always important.

DAWE: The Prime Minister has launched Australia’s bid for a seat on the Security Council.

CLARKE: He has. “We listen. We partner. We protect.”

DAWE: Who do we listen to?

CLARKE: Everybody. That’s the listening.

DAWE: The Palestinian Authority asked for the ban.

CLARKE: And we heard them. Beautifully. You could have heard a pin drop.

DAWE: We partner.

CLARKE: Absolutely.

DAWE: With the twelve countries?

CLARKE: Certainly.

DAWE: They were our partners.

CLARKE: Yes.

DAWE: Until they signed.

CLARKE: Well, yes. They went ahead and did something.

DAWE: We protect.

CLARKE: That’s where we’re very strong.

DAWE: Protect who?

CLARKE: Australian businesses, Palestinians and Israelis.

DAWE: In that order.

CLARKE: Alphabetical.

DAWE: The bids for the E1 settlement tender close on the fifth of October.

CLARKE: That’s very soon.

DAWE: Will Australia act before then?

CLARKE: I can say this. Australia will take decisive action at the appropriate time.

DAWE: Is that before the fifth of October?

CLARKE: The appropriate time will be determined by the circumstances.

DAWE: What circumstances?

CLARKE: The circumstances prevailing at the time.

DAWE: Which time?

CLARKE: The appropriate time.

DAWE: And if the tender closes before then?

CLARKE: Then the tender will have closed.

DAWE: And Australia?

CLARKE: Australia will remain committed to taking decisive action at the appropriate time.

DAWE: Even if the appropriate time has passed?

CLARKE: That’s why we’re walking backwards.

DAWE: To get a longer run-up.

CLARKE: Exactly.

DAWE: Thanks for your time.

CLARKE: Any time.

DAWE: Any time?

CLARKE: Well.

DAWE: Yes?

CLARKE: Just not this one.